edTPA Survival Guide

Gerry: [00:00:00] They've made two really good decisions. Yeah, 

Andrea: what were 

Gerry: the two? I was gonna say the name change and then me, but the me was your decision. Yeah. So you know what? You, you, you, you earned your stripes back on that. Good, good- There we 

Andrea: go ... good, good job. Thank you. Thank you so much

Theme: To survive the climb 

Andrea: Hey, teacher besties. Welcome to How to Survive the Classroom. Um, today we are doing something a little special. Up top before we bring Gerry into the episode, I have Annie Cecchetelli here. She is the chief product officer of Turnitin, which most of us teachers are very familiar with this company.

Um, Annie, welcome. 

Annie: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. 

Andrea: Yeah, and I, I'm so thrilled to talk to you because Turnitin is, I mean, I feel like leading the charge right now in education and AI, and it's a company that I know I've personally used and trusted for many, many years as an educator. [00:01:00] I'm really excited because it really seems like Turnitin is addressing the nuance of AI and the importance of integrity, and I think for me as an English teacher especially, I...

It was always, like, an uphill battle with getting my students to write their own papers before AI, and now it, it exists. Um, and I think, you know, I, I feel like I have a million questions, but we, we wanna respect your time. We only have you for a few minutes. Um, but I would love to hear from you on what you think is a responsible way to use AI in the classroom right now as educators.

Annie: So I'm gonna give you a non-answer answer- Okay ... that isn't satisfying, but it'll get us started. Great. Which is I'm not sure I understand what responsible use is other than responsible use is about transparency, it's about communication, and it's about collaboration between the teacher and the student. I think we're at a [00:02:00] point now where we're all trying to learn what is responsible.

I think it's easy to know what isn't, right? Yeah. We can see how it can be misused. Uh, but as we start to go beyond just basic, um, academic integrity and thinking about learning integrity, right? About what does it mean to think? What does it mean to solve a problem? I think we're learning how AI can support those efforts of a student as opposed to just take them over with the student- Yeah

going on autopilot, which allows for them to not learn. And many times, and we talk to so many teachers and students, many times students don't even realize they're doing it. They're not trying to have misconduct. Like, there are some- Mm-hmm ... for sure, but there are many students who are just trying to learn how to use these tools, but unsure of just the guardrails as well as the impact on their future.

Andrea: Yeah, 100%. You mentioned guardrails. For especially because a lot of schools, I think, are [00:03:00] still trying to play catch-up. Like, there are so many schools that still don't have an AI policy at all. So if, if a teacher is out there and they're saying like, "Hey, my school doesn't have a policy. I'm kind of on my own here in knowing about AI," and needing to put out some kind of, of guidelines and guardrails for students, do you have any guidance on where they could get started with that?

Annie: Yeah. It's funny, so my husband is a high school English teacher. Amazing. Um, so I get a lot of feedback from him, as well as I learn the struggles that he's dealing with in the classroom as well. Um, I would say the, uh, with anything that you're teaching students, right, a conversation around it is always a lot more productive than just handing out a red light, green light, yellow light, you know, which I, we see, like a piece of paper, right?

Yeah. I think that it does require a conversation, um, so that students understand not just what AI is doing, but what you're asking the student to do themselves, and why you think it's useful. I think that that's [00:04:00] true about any assessment, but why you're asking the student to think through the things that you're asking.

Um, so I do think it starts with there. If I were a teacher, I would say I still don't think there are enough, right? I, I understand that there's, like, the don't use it at all, and you can use it fully, and that's not really the problem. It's not those two pieces. Yeah. It's that whole middle. And I think that that's really difficult.

I was just reading one, you know, even an hour ago, and it was explaining how to reference how you use AI. And that alone was, like, two pages, and I was like, "Oh, so that's how you would do it." I think that that's even difficult. I think to acknowledge the difficulty, even when you're trying to do it the right way, is really important so that then we have some grace and patience.

But that is all about transparency, right? If you're a student and you're just using it on the side, you're not actually working through that with the teachers and with the rest of your class, right? Yeah. I think this is a really interesting time to be in school, uh, and to [00:05:00] have a point of view and to learn from it, and think about what that's gonna mean for your future.

And so I recommend all teachers have a thorough conversation at the beginning of the semester. 

Andrea: Yeah. I think that's really interesting, too, to make that part of the dialogue, because really we're modeling what our students are gonna have to do in the future. I mean, I, I feel like every single day I'm seeing a new AI tool that is coming out, and then I as a, a professor of future teachers have to figure out what I'm comfortable with using to prepare my material, what I'm comfortable with teaching my future teachers to use, and that extra step of like, okay, how can we prepare them for this world that is different every single day?

And AI is moving so quickly, and I think that teaching them that conversation piece, I think you're right, is, is so incredibly important. Because it- Saying simply no AI, I mean, any, I feel like any teacher in a classroom right now is like, "Good luck." Like, uh, you say no AI, even if you make them do everything paper and pencil until the very last second, [00:06:00] it takes literally three seconds, um, to, to simply just produce something very, like exact to the prompt.

And so I, I think you're right. I think that transparency piece is really important. And, um, I think it's, it's really interesting too, being in the position that I'm in, and a lot of teachers, where we're learning how we feel about these guidelines and guardrails along with our students. Because maybe we did something and we're like, "You know, I actually don't love that.

I don't love the feel-" Yeah, that 

Annie: didn't hit right. Yeah. Which I say, I mean, same in the, same in the workforce. Yeah. We're dealing with the same thing, is like if we see how AI was used in a work product, and you think it's okay, but then it lands in a way, you're like, "Actually, I don't, I don't like that."

Right? Yeah. I'm learning what, what responsible use is through how you're feeling and reacting to it. I totally agree. 

Andrea: Yeah. And I feel like that, that's one of those things that is a challenge too, because you ca- it's hard to communicate the, the gut feeling we get sometimes, that we're like, "I don't, I don't love that."

Like we've gotta improve the transparency or we gotta improve [00:07:00] some step of this process. So, um, well I, I am gonna let you go, but I wanted to see if you have any message for teachers that are navigating AI right now, any final nuggets of wisdom for them. 

Annie: Hang in there. That is my that is, that's what I got for you.

I think it's a very difficult time, and, and you are front lines. I think there's a lot of administrators who are grappling with it in a very different way, and they have the, the grace of time. Like they can have time- Yeah ... to figure it out. But you don't. You're a teacher. Somebody just turned something in.

Yeah. Like you have to make a decision. Um, there's no putting that off. And so I have incredible respect, um, and, and patience for figuring it out. And, and also like, uh, it, it's always good to admit what you don't know, especially to students. Yeah. Students appreciate that, you know? Yeah. That makes you more authentic, and they see that we're all in this together, and there's part, they're part of the solution then.

Andrea: Yeah, absolutely. Well, Annie, thank you again so much for chatting with us [00:08:00] today. I really appreciate it. 

Annie: Thank you too. 

Andrea: All right, guys. We will be right back. I know, um, you just cannot wait to hear from Gerry. So we're gonna take a quick break. And we will be right back.

Welcome to How to Survive the Classroom. I'm Andrea Forkham. 

Gerry: And I'm Gerry Patoca. 

Andrea: And you guys, today is a big day for multiple reasons. I think the first reason is this is our ser- or it's not our series, our season finale. So we are gonna take a quick break and... Oh my God, Gerry can't even stop playing with his toys long enough- 

Gerry: No, that's 

Andrea: not what I'm doing

for me to finish the intro. He, you guys, he got a new toy and he- Could you hear me? I could hear whatever that was. 

Gerry: No, my microphone's like far away from my face. I was trying to fix it. Okay. Got it. But I had, I had s- I had, I had stuff in the way. 

Andrea: Oh my gosh. It was a toy. It was 

Gerry: a Spider-Man 

Andrea: watch. It, 

Gerry: it was, but I really had stuff in the way and I was trying to like, I thought I was being nonchalant about it.

Andrea: You were the most chalant. It was definitely- Oh ... not nonchalant. Um, so yeah, so it's our season [00:09:00] finale. Um, we're gonna take a quick break and then we're gonna come back in August. And we are very excited. It's going to be super fun. Um, so that's thing number one. Thing number two, Gerry, tell the people what you have officially done.

Gerry: I submitted my edTPA. 

Andrea: Yes. 

Gerry: I'm, I am done. I have some little, I have to put a bow on the program, finish some stuff up, but- Yep. You Patoca'd it ... I feel like a weight's off my shoulders. I Patoca'd it. I was, I, I literally got to it and I was like, "10 minutes left." I said, "Man, it's 10 minutes left, but I got like 20 minutes worth of work."

Theme: Oh 

Gerry: my God. I was like, "I'm cooked." And then I go online and I'm like, "What's that? That's Pacific time." I was like, "I got three hours." I put my feet up. I said, "I'm good. I'm chilling." 

Andrea: Oh my gosh. Yeah, guys, I need you to understand how close to the deadline Gerry was because- I 

Gerry: was two hours before the deadline.

Andrea: Yeah. Like you, you submitted it at like 1:00 AM Eastern Time. 

Gerry: Yeah. [00:10:00] 

Andrea: And it, it would've been due like m- what? Midnight Pa- Pacific time? It 

Gerry: w- yes. And it was- Yeah ... 'cause I was like cutting it close and I kept seeing all the items when I would submit them and mark them for ready to submit, it would say Pacific Time.

I'm like, "Hold on." And I go look, and this is what Patoca'ing something is, is I 100% put myself in a predicament where I just, where I was like I fell short. I, it was game seven overtime and I blew the lead and lost the game. And then suddenly they put four minutes back on the clock and I go on a generational run.

I'm like, "I'm cooking. I'm, look at me, man. I'm cooking." 

Andrea: Wow. Do you, do you wanna share with our wonderful community what, what did you write it about? Like you, you had like, 'cause some people don't even have an edTPA, and so you're supposed to like record yourself teaching and analyze it, right? 

Gerry: Yes. So what I did was I did, I, I teach a career exploration [00:11:00] marketing class for eighth grade, and I did the four Ps of marketing.

So I did a, um- We did a guided note sheet on the gu- on the four Ps, and I walked them through and I gave them like, um, sentence structures for them to go fill in words here and there, and I justified why I did that. And I had, uh, I call them openers and closers, bell ringers and exit tickets. And then we, the next day, we, um, I played a movie trailer, and we looked at the movie trailer, tried to identify the four Ps in that trailer, and then I put them into random groups.

Well, not random. I put them in, I made their groups and put them into groups and randomized lists of products for each group number, where they could take the pro- get their, assign their product, and they had to find an advertisement for it, identify the four Ps, and be able to explain it. And then they had some questions like, "What would you change?

What would you do differently here?" And then I had them play four corners, but like with the four [00:12:00] Ps. So I would read a scenario, and they had to go to the corner they thought it was, and then we took a test on it. 

Andrea: Gerry, that's really good. I cooked. Yeah. 

Gerry: I cooked low-key. 

Andrea: Yeah. You had them moving, you had them up.

Like that's a really creative and engaging lesson plan, guys. I mean I'm very impressed. I 

Gerry: know, 

Andrea: and- 

Gerry: It's really good ... and one thing, though, when I realized, like, when I had to, like, watch myself- 

Andrea: Yeah ... 

Gerry: teach, I was like, yo, I'm talking way too much. I just was saying the same thing, and I'm like, yo, I'm boring.

And I, like, I think I put a video on Instagram. I was like, "I gotta start climbing on the desk or something. I gotta learn- Yeah ... some tricks." Mm-hmm. I'm like, I'm boring. I'm watching the kids just, like, look at each other, and I'm like, ah. Oh, no. 

Andrea: Watching videos of yourself bomb in front of a bunch of students, I, I don't know if that's worse than watching clips back of bombing in a comedy club.

Neither are fun. 

Gerry: Um, uh, the [00:13:00] bombing in the club is worse. Yeah. 'Cause when you not getting laughs and you're teaching, it's like, yo, if I'm not getting laughs, I'm teaching, I'm probably doing my job. Like- 

Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, it is, it is brutal when you know people have, like, paid their money to come and see you, and- Yeah

you just disappointed them. They paid, like, 25 bucks to be bummed. Do you 

Gerry: have a, do you have a tell when a joke bombs? Like, do you have something you do? 

Andrea: I've tried, because actually, and I will say this, guys, I, I will absolutely say this. One of the people I've seen recover from a joke that fell flat the best was you.

I was so impressed. I don't remember, I think it was one of the first times you came on Teachers' Lounge with us. 

Gerry: It was in Raleigh. 

Andrea: It was in Raleigh. And 

Gerry: I said- It was like- I said, yeah- Yeah, what was it? ... tried some shit on the fly, it didn't work. 

Andrea: Yeah. And then, but then you tied it back. You're like, "Wow, okay.

I tried, tried it on, on the fly. It didn't work. You guys ever do that in a lesson and it just doesn't work?" And it killed. Like, it absolutely recovered, and I feel like you got even a bigger laugh [00:14:00] than if the first joke had worked. And I just remember being like, damn. Like, I gotta figure out how to do that.

And I've gotten better at it, where I'm not so frazzled. Um, but I definitely, it depends on my mood. Weirdly, I feel like my s- my shows are more dictated by my mood when I start the show than even, like, necessarily the audience. Like, if I'm in a good mood and I'm vibing and I'm like, they're- because it is about confidence, right?

Yeah. Just like when you're teaching a lesson, if you're up there and you seem like you don't know what you're doing, kids can pick up on that. Same thing- Yeah ... when you're doing comedy. Um, I don't feel like I have a really good tell. Steven- But I'm saying, like- ... can always tell ... 

Gerry: do you have s- no, like, I'm not, like, can you tell.

Do you have something where, like- you say or do when, I, I guess it would still be a tell 'cause I have s- I, I, the reason I s- asked that is 'cause we were talking about bombing and a buddy pointed out to me and said, "You know you have a tell when you bomb." They said, "When you tell a joke that you know didn't fall flat and you know they know, you, you kinda just look down and you go, 'Hell [00:15:00] yeah.'"

I was like, "I do that every time." I'm like, "Hell yeah." 

Andrea: But I, I actually think that's, like, a funny way of, like, recovering it, where, like, people are just like, "That's kinda weird." And then you're like, "Hell yeah." And then people are like, "That's weird." Yeah, 

Gerry: but after- Like, 

Andrea: it made it weird ... 

Gerry: like, fourth "hell yeah," people are like- It's maybe too many

"Maybe this guy's not good." Like 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Gerry: Maybe this guy sucks. 

Andrea: Gosh, I do, I do that. I'm trying to think of the phrase I use, but I absolutely do. 

Gerry: I- I, I've, I've gotten better, but I still do this. I tip my hat after a punchline, no matter how it goes. Oh. If I thought someone's gonna laugh, I touch my hat 

Andrea: But you don't usually even have a hat on.

Gerry: Yeah, I do. Do 

Andrea: you? Do you? Yeah, 

Gerry: most of the time. I've, I've stopped doing it some. If I shaved my head that day, I'll, I'll sometimes won't wear one. Yeah. And part of it's that, is so I don't, won't do that, and won't have to feel every- 'Cause sometimes I'll mess with it- Yeah ... and it's just sitting crooked. I'll touch it again.

And, um, but then I do like, I, I think since I've seen Shane Gillis do this, [00:16:00] I'll be like that. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Gerry: It's just kind of like, 

Andrea: mm-hmm. It's, it's re- And Shane Gillis, I think, is the master of leaning into the discomfort of his audience. Whether you like his jokes or you don't, like, he crafts jokes in such a way that he knows he's saying things that are gonna make people uncomfortable, and uses it in a way- Yeah

that I, I think is incredible. Um, I'm try, I, and I 

Theme: w- It's so fun. 

Andrea: It, so I, I will say, and I don't know if we've even talked about The Roast of Kevin Hart on here yet. I don't think we have. 

Theme: I didn't watch 

Andrea: it. Um, I tried, and I had to turn it off, and I like roasts usually. Um, but I really didn't enjoy the jokes that were being put in there, because to me, they felt kind of lazy.

Like, the jokes were all Black jokes. If it was a woman, it was always, like, slut-shaming jokes, and if it was Kevin, it was, like, a [00:17:00] short joke and a Black joke. And it just, to me, I'm like, none of these are specific enough that show that you actually know this person. 

Gerry: Yeah. 

Andrea: Like- 

Gerry: They're- 

Andrea: It was just kind of- They're, they're, 

Gerry: they're all, like, just kind of, like, racist.

And it's like- Yeah ... yeah, that's why I don't like roasts. I've been asked to do roasts before. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Gerry: I'm like, "No, I don't wanna do it." I said, "Why do I wanna spend time writing material for something when I could be writing actual material? Why do I wanna spend time writing material for something where I'm gonna feel competitive, I'm gonna be mad if I lose, and I know that, that it's just gonna go at my weight?"

I'm like, if I wanted to hear s- somebody call me fat, I would just, like, go to work, you know? Like, it's, I'm, I'm not gonna go get called fat by a guy who works at Exxon. Like, I'm not doing that, man. Yeah. 

Andrea: Yeah. There's a, there's a comic I'm friends with, and he made a comment that, like, he went to an open mic night, I guess, and the host made a fat joke about him when he came up.[00:18:00] 

And I just, like, to me, that's so, I feel like the slut-shaming jokes, the Black jokes, the short jokes, like, those are, they're, they're lazy. Like, they're lazy, and they're not funny, and they're usually mean-spirited, and I don't really like mean-spirited- 

Gerry: Yeah ... 

Andrea: jokes. Like, I, I will say I get the closest to mean when I talk about districts and administrators on my shows.

Um- Yeah ... that's the meanest I get, but even then, I don't go in super hard, because- I, I, I would feel bad and people would feel it on me that like it's not me to be like cruel to people, especially in the context of doing crowd work and stuff 

Gerry: If it's funny, I'll give it to them. Like, I'm like, if it's a fat joke but it's funny, I'll let you have it.

The problem is when you give people those, they feel like they can keep doing them. Yeah. And like, yeah, I've had to say stuff to people before. I'm like, "All right, yeah, you, you doing too much." [00:19:00] 

Andrea: Well, 

Gerry: yeah, 

Andrea: and l- 

Gerry: And it's like, it's 

Andrea: stupid ... it's so, it's so rare for it to be clever. You know? Usually it's just the lowest hanging fruit, and there's just no reason to do it.

And so, I don't know, I always, like, even whenever I see anything about Nikki Glaser, and they just do slut-shaming jokes the entire time, and I'm like, "That's all you could think of? That's it?" Yeah. Like, there's nothing about her as a person, there's nothing about... Because I think that's why her roast was so good when she did the roast of Tom Brady, is like it was, she did her, her normal like, "Oh my gosh, I wanna sleep with Tom Brady," type stuff.

But like- 

Theme: Yeah ... 

Andrea: there, there was a lot more to it that made it, I think, more creative. And so, I don't know. I just, I kept thinking about that when I was watching the roast, the part of it that I watched. I couldn't watch all of it. Because I, I l- Like, Tires, I think, is one of the funniest sitcoms that has come out.

Gerry: Tires is pretty funny. 

Andrea: It's so funny and so, like, they've surprised me several times on that show. So I don't know if you guys have seen [00:20:00] Tires. It is not one to watch with children, I would say. There are some wild jokes in it. Um, but it is, like, I think going back to, like, some, some pretty funny writing that I feel like we don't get a lot of these days, because people...

I don't... It's not even like, oh, people are too sensitive. It's more like, uh, there's, there's so many different people that can get offended by stuff, that it's like you gotta pick one group to offend sometimes, otherwise, like, the comedy's probably not landing as hard as it should in a lot of ways.

Although- 

Gerry: Yeah ... 

Andrea: Nate, I guess Nate Bargatze has figured out how to do it, and he's just sold the most tickets of- There's 

Gerry: definitely a way to do it ... any comic ever. And it's hard, and especially, like, with what you're allowed to, like, put on TV. And it's like- Mm-hmm ... it's, it's, it's like I, I can appreciate when they're not making fun of someone.

Andrea: Yeah. 

Gerry: But- 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Gerry: Yeah ... it's, um, it's hard, it's, it's hard to come by. But it's like [00:21:00] on Tires, like, yeah, these guys are just rocking. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Gerry: It- They're just having fun. Like ... it's, 

Andrea: it's, I think that's the thing, right? Is like, it's fun if there's love behind the joke and everyone's in on the joke. It becomes not fun when, like, there's one person that's getting picked on and is not in on the joke.

Like, then I don't love it. Um, okay. So going back to your edTPA real quick, because we probably have some listeners that actually will have to do an edTPA. Do you have any tips, any nuggets of wisdom for people as they get ready to do it? 

Gerry: You, you better Ask all the questions, get start, like do everything from the jump.

'Cause I waited until I was like ready to start doing the work and turning it in to pay for it. But if you, until you pay for it, at least if you can do this, I didn't know how, I had to get the handbook with the rubrics and everything once I paid for it. And it's like, yeah, you're gonna want that to try and learn what to do.

Yeah. And most like [00:22:00] colleges and programs have a... And my program is self-paced. I just never clicked the button to go through it, and I'm like, "I wish I had read some of this before I was like trying to do it," and I kind of waited till last minute. It's like, if you procrastinate, it's like, man, it, it's just a trench.

I can see how people, like, if you can... Lu- I was lucky that since I procrastinate, I was like, I'm glad this is like my fifth year in education. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Gerry: It's my fourth year teaching, fifth year in education. I'm like, I can kind of, okay, I know what I'm doing. Let me, let me- Yeah ... here's, here's what, I'll do this.

And even still I'm like, man, there's some things I wish I had done differently. Like, I wish I had had extra assignment in there before we did the group project. I'm like, yeah, I wish I'd had some extra stuff, um, 'cause I think it would've answered some prompts better. Unless you're the one grading mine, you're listening, I did everything perfect.

But it wa- it was, um, it, it was, it was hard. I am very anxious if I'm, on if I passed or not. I need to pass [00:23:00] the first go around or it's, it's gonna make my life very difficult. But- 

Andrea: So when do, when will you find out? By the time our break is over, will you have news for, for our listeners? 

Gerry: Yes. I think so.

Andrea: Amazing. Okay, good. Yeah. So that, but that is really solid advice. So actually read the course materials and access the rubric so you can know what you're doing. 

Gerry: I'm gonna put it like this. If it, if y- if it, if you're listening in and this is the last you hear of it for a while, like after the break, like if we come back from break and we don't talk about it- 

Andrea: Don't ask.

He's crying. If 

Gerry: we come back from the break and- Yeah ... and, it don't get mentioned, yeah. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Gerry: Don't, don't ask. 

Andrea: Um, okay. Also, I think you owe my mother an apology, you guys. I... You guys have, obviously you've heard my mom. She's been on the pod, and Gerry, was [00:24:00] it, was it an AI thing that you used, like some sort of filter?

It 

Gerry: was a filter of face tattoos, and I posted it on my Instagram story or something else. She was like, she wa- And she was like, "Please tell me, uh, these aren't real." And I kinda like, I didn't know if she was playing or not, so I went, "They are 

Andrea: And 

Gerry: she believed him, you guys She, and she re- yeah, and she responds to a lot of the stuff I put on my story.

Andrea: Yeah. 

Gerry: And she responded to that, and I was like, "I'm gonna mess with her." And then a few days went by, I texted Andrea, I said, "I think your mom thinks I have face tattoos." And she, and you went, "My mom definitely doesn't think I have face tattoos." Then I sent you the message, and you said, "Gerry, tell my mom you don't have face tattoos."

Andrea: Because 

Gerry: I- It looked real. And low-key- It 

Andrea: did look real. It looked real ... I 

Gerry: looked good. 

Andrea: It- don't get face 

Gerry: tattoos I looked good. I looked good with them. I looked like- Gerry ... Jelly Roll. Like- 

Andrea: You did look like

Gerry: Jelly Roll, actually ... not at his highest, but like when- Yeah ... like I look, I looked like Jelly Roll. And I was like- Yeah ... "Yeah, I [00:25:00] kinda look good." 

Andrea: We're still not gonna do it. Um, but yeah. You s- say- 

Gerry: She, she slid up on something today. And she said, I put, I, I posted something about buying Spider-Man Crocs. 

Andrea: Yeah.

Gerry: And she said, "You should do it because it would annoy Educator Andrea." And I said, "That's a good enough reason." 

Andrea: My mom's out here just trolling me from the, um, the corners of the internet. I love that for all 

Gerry: of 

Andrea: us. 

Gerry: I, every three weeks she's like, "Have you gotten your real ID yet?" 

Andrea: She's really concerned about you.

She asked me just, like, the other day, "Has Gerry gotten his real ID?" And I was like, "Probably not, Mom. He's doing his edTPA." She's like, "I just- Oh, I- "... I just think he needs to do it" ... 

Gerry: oh, my, Mama Candy, I got one for you. My car taxes are expired too. It just happened a couple days ago. No, Gerry. It just happened and my, and I was so locked in on the edTPA I forgot to go get it done.

Oh my gosh. So I'm gonna go do that this coming week after work one day. But yeah. 

Andrea: Uh-huh. 

Gerry: I'm riding dirty right now. I, 

Andrea: I- Oh my gosh ... 

Gerry: my, my [00:26:00] plates are expired. 

Andrea: She's gonna be worried. She's gonna be real worried. She is gonna be worried. But- Hopefully by the time this comes out, whenever this episode 

Gerry: comes out- It will be.

It'll be done, it- it'll be done by, like, Tuesday 

Andrea: Okay, Mom, you're gonna have to DM him on Instagram and ask if he's actually gotten it done, 'cause he says he's gonna get it done before this episode comes out. So I guess we'll see. I guess we'll see. When's this ep- 

Gerry: when's this episode come out? 

Andrea: In, like, three weeks.

So- Yeah ... you've got some time. 

Gerry: Yeah, I, 'cause w- I'm gonna try, I've been trying to start Uber driving and stuff again, make a little side money. I can't Uber drive when my plates are expired, so I gotta go get it done. 

Andrea: All right. We'll see. Um, okay, let's take a very quick break and we will be right back. Have you ever wondered what I would say if my mother and my administrators weren't watching every single thing I do on social media?

Well, that's exactly what my stand-up show is, and I'm gonna be coming to a town near you super soon. You can get tickets at educatorandrea.com/tickets

Welcome back, teacher besties Welcome back, 

Gerry: teacher besties. 

Andrea: [00:27:00] Too late. You were too late. 

Gerry: Ah. 

Andrea: He's been trying to jump on my intro. Too late. You slacked. Slacked on it. Um, okay, so the questions that I have this time are questions I actually got from my uncle. I don't know if I've dropped very much of my family lore.

I think I've talked about my grandfather on here, who turns 100 in a month, actually. 

Gerry: He 

Andrea: is- Oh, I thought you said turned 

Gerry: 100. 

Andrea: He's going to turn 100 in a month. Um- 

Gerry: We having a party? 

Andrea: Yeah, we are. I'm going up to Michigan. It's gonna be great. Um, and he had 12 children, and then they have all the, all the kids.

There's just, it's a very big family, big family reunion get-together in July that's happening. Um, but one of these uncles, one of the, the six uncles I have on that side, um, is actually going to become a teacher. He was in business management and all of that kind of stuff, and he didn't really wanna do that anymore, and so now he is actually going to be teaching kind of the same classes that you are, [00:28:00] Gerry.

It's like a life skills class that he's gonna be teaching. So he had a couple of questions for us to answer, and I figure because this is coming out in the summer, we also likely are going to have some people who are just finishing their teaching program looking for jobs. So, um, I wanted to see... Let's see.

He asked, "I'm looking for a teaching job. What should I do to prepare?" So when looking at districts- Have a hard degree Not everywhere. Not everywhere. So that is true in s- a lot of the country 

Gerry: Oh yeah, true, some places they'll hire you if you're, if the body's still warm.

Andrea: No, there, some places can still be choosy. Like in California, it's still hard to get a teaching job for a lot of people. Really? Yeah, because teachers do get... Here's the thing. I, for the cost of living level in California, the pay did not keep up. I was not making six figures in California. I actually saw a paper the other day that was like, [00:29:00] "Teachers make an average of 120K in California."

And I was like, "No, they do not." I had two master's degrees and nine years experience, and I was making 70. Like, that's not... And the cost, and the housing fair is like a million dollars for a not nice house. Like, you're not getting to... I don't, I don't understand that. But yeah. 

Theme: Yeah, it's crazy. 

Andrea: So, very. Um, so teaching jobs some places you have to work a little harder than just having a pulse or recently having a pulse.

Um, and I also have this advice in my book, They Never Taught Us That. Get it everywhere books are sold, Barnes & Noble, Amazon. Um, but I, I wanted to see if there was anything in particular you did, Gerry, because you got hired also obviously before you had your license. 'Cause, and now you're, like, finishing the edTPA and all of that.

So what kinds of things did you do when you were looking for a job? Like, when you prepared to go to an interview, can you think of anything that you did ahead of time? So 

Gerry: when I got hired, I got hired as a teacher's assistant in a special ed [00:30:00] classroom, and I, I was trying to teach. I was applying for teaching jobs that I thought I was interested in.

I kind of just wanted to be in the school system, so I was applying for anything that sound- I, I didn't know a media specialist was librarian. 

Theme: Yeah. 

Gerry: And my degree was in media stuff, so I applied for media specialist and did not meet the qualifications, but they called me. And real- in hindsight, they bamboozled me hard.

They, and they was like, "Hey, how about being an instructional assistant?" And I was like, "Okay, I just wanna work in teaching." So they call me, and I do the interview, I get hired on the spot, and I show up, and I was a teacher assistant for three-fourths of the school year. And then I wanted to teach, and I was willing to teach about whatever.

I just wanted to stay where I was. And I was, I actually interviewed for ELA And they said, "Okay, what about [00:31:00] PE?" I was like, "Word." Because he knew, my principal, he got hired a few months, w- the principal who hired me, I, I, I was in an interview with an AP, a prin- the principal, an AP, and an instructional facilitator.

They all left at the end of that year. 

Andrea: Oh my 

Gerry: gosh. The principal who hired me resigned three weeks after I got hired to go open a new school. And we got, we had an admin intern. I tried to get her to push me through so I could get the temporary, I, uh, temporary license. I interviewed for social studies, didn't get it.

The guy they hired only stayed for like 12 weeks, and he left, and I was like, "Hmm, they had me." You're like, "Well, should've hired me." Um, yeah. And then, um Then he, but the, all that to say is my principal knew before I did that I would've been the worst ELA teacher known to man. And he's like, "How about PE?" I was like, "Sure."

And then I taught PE for a year before I ended up in business because we lost that PE [00:32:00] position, and he knew there was like two other things I was actually interested in teaching. And he was like, "Well, they're both gonna op- might open up, so you can pick one." I was like, "Word." 

Andrea: So I guess one option for people could be through like a side door of being an instructional assistant, an aide of some kind.

Gerry: Or a sub. I feel 

Andrea: like- 

Gerry: Go be a 

Andrea: sub Or a 

Gerry: sub And just, I mean, if you are a sub and you like a school, you can probably, if you're on it, pick up a job there every day. Okay. And they get to where they like you, then when they come... I know we have subs, we'll move them around different spots. Um, once we know some of the subs, we'll put them where they fit best- Yeah

when they get there. And we've had, we've hired people as b- to be IAs or to be classroom teachers because they were subbing first. So yeah, probably, uh, do like I did and go be a IA or a speed ta- teacher assistant or whatever they call it, um, in your district. I think it's different everywhere else. Or sub there.

That would be a way for them to see your face, 'cause they're always [00:33:00] hiring for those positions. Yeah. They just don't pay what? Pay grade. 

Andrea: Right. And so it's kind of biting the bullet in the, in the short term in the hopes that you get a contract for the next school year. I would say the same thing about long-term subbing.

Like that is the most ideal I think, because then they see you as a teacher, you get kind of like a, a schedule, a routine. The students will kind of get to know you. It is a nice way of kind of getting like a practice run, a paid practice run, as opposed to student teaching. Um, because I, like my uncle, I know that that was his way in was he was doing a long-term sub position, and then now in the fall they're looking to place him doing like a business life skills type of class.

So long-term subbing is a really good one. Um, I would also say do a lot of research on the schools, and talk to the teachers about what it's like teaching there. And some of the things that I think you should ask are like what are the adjunct duties that you need to do? [00:34:00] And are those paid? So things like, oh, do you have to go after school and do bus duty?

Okay, how often? How, are you doing lunch duty every day? Like stuff like that 

Gerry: because some- They're paying 

Andrea: for that? Some schools will have like paid adjunct duties, not necessarily like lunch duty and stuff, but, um, some schools don't make you do much lunch duty or any of that at all. Like the last school I was at, we didn't have pretty much any of that.

We didn't have lunch duty, we didn't have bus duty. They had other folks that did all of that. So that would be one of the main questions. Also, something else that I think is really important is asking about if there are, um, shortages on subs, who is then going to fill that place? So is it going to be Gerry because he wants to earn the money, and is it paid?

Because that's the other thing. I worked at a school where if they just needed somebody, they'd call you and be like, "You need to fill. You need to head over to that classroom and cover because so-and-so's gone," and you just wouldn't get paid for it or anything, so. 

Gerry: That's the way mine is, [00:35:00] and, and I get, I get it to an extent.

If that's the predicament you're in, that's the predicament you're in. Like I've- Yeah ... gotten a little better. I used to crash out when they'd ask me. I would spaz, but, 'cause it felt like I was getting asked all the time. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Gerry: But I was at work, and I'm like, "I'm here every day. I'm doing what I'm supposed to do.

There are people who aren't here every day." And, and I'm being careful what I say 'cause I'm not, I'm not dissing anybody. I know everybody's situation's different, but it's just like, and now they kinda have it where like if you've missed a bit, it's like, yeah, you're probably next up to do, to have to do duty, especially if somebody has to cover your class.

Yeah. If somebody has to cover for you, you're probably gonna be covering next. And it's like if I don't like it, it's fair. Yeah. But then there's other times where it's like, yeah, if I've been here every day, I shouldn't be having to cover for everybody- Right ... during my time. And then sometimes they split coverage between us so we're not giving up a whole planning period.

Andrea: Yeah. Yeah, which is nice. I, I did appreciate it when they [00:36:00] offered payment. Um, that was always really good, but that didn't happen when I was in Virginia. It was only when I was in California where there is a, a bit of a stronger union presence. Um, so, uh, all right, this, this next question that he asked, I am very curious if you have an answer for this one.

What books or resources do you recommend? Other than my book, of course, They Never Taught Us That, obviously, but... 

Gerry: I'm glad you said it 'cause I was gonna be slick and say it. Uh-huh. And I'm over here like, "Shit, what's name Andrea's book?" 

Andrea: Obviously my book, obviously, but other than that. 

Gerry: Be- before I answer, you wanna hear some, hear something bad?

Sometimes I confuse the name of your book and our podcast. They, in my head, brain, they've, they've both been said so many- Yeah ... run together, and I'll accidentally say the wrong, I'm like, "Ah, it's not it. My bad." 

Andrea: I do the same thing, and worse, this podcast used to have another name, and, uh- What was the 

Gerry: name of this podcast?

Andrea: It was Those Who Can't Do. 

Gerry: Ah, [00:37:00] I'm glad you changed that. That one sucked 

Andrea: I ... It didn't suck. It was a good name, but it wasn't very searchable, okay, Gerry? I liked it. I thought it was really funny, because it was like a tongue in cheek, and the whole team was like, "I don't know if it's gonna work." I was like, "It's gonna work."

And it didn't work, and so we renamed it. But I liked it. I still, I will die on the hill that I still think it's a good name, and- 

Gerry: Yeah. A, a good, good call, team. 

Andrea: You know what? 

Gerry: They, they've made, they've made two really good decisions. I was gonna- Yeah, what were the 

Andrea: two? 

Gerry: I was gonna say the name change and then me, but the me was your decision.

Yeah. So you know what? You, you, you, you earned your stripes back on that. Good, good, good, good job. There 

Andrea: we go. Thank you. Thank you so much for your approval. Yeah. Are there any other resources that you can think of, though? Um- Like even if it's, like, a website 

Gerry: I'm trying to, uh, ChatGPT. No, um, it is, the AI is, is, is nice.

I know people hate it and people don't like, and I use it not as like, I don't let it do the work for me 'cause it bothers me when it's just completely AI. 

Andrea: Yeah. [00:38:00] 

Gerry: But it's nice to like help you think about things like, "Hey, what am I missing here? What's an idea? How can I implement this?" Like, I think it's a good...

I know that's not really the answer you're looking for, but I feel like it has changed the game a little bit, like- 

Andrea: Yeah 

Gerry: Um. 

Andrea: The, the, the, I mean- I don't know ... that was my, that was my advice to my uncle was like Magic School AI, I think is one of the first ones. Magic School 

Gerry: AI. 

Andrea: Yep. 

Gerry: Yeah. Is- Magic School, Ma- Magic School's sick 'cause it's like it, it, you, I, I u- I use a bunch of different ones for like my personal, but it's like I, I've been able to upload a video before, and I don't know any other ones where I can do that, where I can put a video and it spit out an- questions for me.

Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. 

Gerry: Um. 

Andrea: That one's cool. Diffit, D-I-F-F-I-T- I don't know that one ... is another one that I, I think is great. But yeah, that and then EduProtocols, which is a, a book that talks about different strategies for, for lesson planning and framework. So those were the ones I told him about, and then, you [00:39:00] know, basically was like, "I'll also bring my book."

Gerry: I didn't read any books. I, I'm trying- Ever? ... to think of the one. W- so in North Carolina, with your first three years, you're in a beginning teachers program where you have a mentor, and I don't know whether states do it that way. But they had books they would let us go through, and some of that stuff was interesting, but we wouldn't, we would go through it kind of like by chapter for what they thought we needed.

Theme: Mm-hmm. 

Gerry: Okay. And I don't, I can't remember the names of them. I didn't like go read any teaching book. I was just kind of winging it. I, I feel like I'm just, I'm just gifted. 

Andrea: Other than my book, obviously, which you read cover to 

Gerry: cover. Yeah, I, yeah, yeah, I bought your book 

Andrea: Guys 

Gerry: I, my book, your, your book is the only book on my coffee table right now.

Andrea: It's the only thing saving your coffee table from getting rings on it. 

Gerry: You just put your coffee on there. 

Andrea: I know, there's rings around it. There's rings on the book. No, I'm playing. I, I know, that's what I was saying. Probably it's just sitting there- No, I- ... little 

Gerry: I do have the r- I did, I did, I did tell my, uh, instructional facilitator, I showed it to [00:40:00] her, and she was like, "Yeah, I want this."

I'm trying to get her to ord- she does the BT stuff, I'm like, "You need to order-" Yes "... Andrew's book." I said, I said, "I looked in there, there's some big words. I think she knows what she's talking about." 

Andrea: There are some big words. That is, yeah. But I should've had you do an endorsement and just be like, "I looked in here, there are some big words.

Gerry Potoka." 

Gerry: I'm, I'm like, "Look, look, y'all, th- this look like I..." I'm like, "This, this looks really important. This looks like 

Andrea: it's-" 

Gerry: It looks legit. "This looks like she knows what she's talking 

Andrea: about." I know. I, honestly. Um, okay. Do you have a hill you're gonna die on today? 

Gerry: Not really. The, the edTPA thing felt like a big waste of time for having been-- I don't get why I still have to take a test to prove to you I can teach when they've been letting me do it as lateral entry.

Like, I, I think that was enough. Um- 

Andrea: Yeah ... 

Gerry: I, I, I'm hesitant to speak at all on it 'cause I'm waiting on results, but the reality is it's like, why, like, why are we making it so, why do I have to pay to take a edTPA? Why I have to do all this when we need [00:41:00] teachers? Yeah. I've proven to you that I can do the job.

Andrea: Yeah. 

Gerry: I've proven to you that I'm capable of doing this. Why do I need to go out of my way and bust my ass to, to prove it to a company who don't know me? Yeah. That's just, that's ridiculous to me. Like, I, I, I don't get why we're doing that. I think it needs to be done away with. I get the purpose it serves, and maybe if you're coming out of college to earn a teaching gr- degree, but if you're also allowing me to teach without the teaching degree and earn my certification while I'm teaching- Yeah

I feel like that should be able to replace me having to take the test by doing the job. Yeah. Because no edTPA is gonna prepare you for how you actually do the job. Yeah. Because I hate to bring it to you, while I think the edTPA is, it, it was good stuff and it te- ma- it's-- I, I will definitely think about stuff differently after doing it, I'm, I'm not doing my, doing it like that every time.

Yeah. It's just not feasible. It is not feasible to think that this is the protocol that I'm gonna be going through [00:42:00] and thinking about and implementing, 'cause a lot of this, it's like it's on autopilot. If you're not doing this stuff in general, you're not good at your job. Yeah. I shouldn't be having to write out in detail.

I mean, I guess it is, you're, it's, you're not having to do this process every time. You're just explaining how you came to this. 

Annie: Yeah. 

Gerry: Which I guess makes sense, but it doesn't make sense that I've, I'm, this coming school year would be my fifth year teaching- I had to take this test to make sure I could get to my fifth year teaching.

I'm like, "This is stupid." Yeah. "This, this is a waste of time." Um, again, I think it serves a purpose. It does make me think about the work I'm doing and think about why I do the things I do, but the, also at the same time, it's like I'm doing this, why do I need to prove it? I feel like if, if I'm teaching and these things aren't being done, then that's up to my admin and up to my PLCs and people like that to point out and make it better.

Why, why are, why would we wait and let some test catch [00:43:00] this when I've been functioning as a teacher for five, four or five years? 

Andrea: Yeah. I hard agree. I always felt like the edTPA came too little too late. So if it, like, not that the stuff in there, like you said, isn't valuable stuff, but you should be learning that stuff in your ed program.

Um, it shouldn't be stuff that you're, like, suddenly now finding out in year four. Um, so yeah, I would agree with that. Uh, the hill I'm gonna- And- Oh, go ahead. So 

Gerry: it, it wasn't something I suddenly found. It was definitely something I procrastinated on. But it's like I'm in a self-paced program, had done the program and everything correctly, and done it in a timely manner.

It's like I would've found it, but it's something that's like it probably serves a better purpose when you're in a cl- college classroom earning the degree and could have people guide you through. 'Cause I talked to a lot of people who said, "Yeah, we spent a year on this," or, "There's a place that made us do this three times through before we did it."

And then, uh, I've, I've not met anybody who said, "Yeah, I've just knocked it out," whatever. Yeah. They're [00:44:00] like, everybody's like, "No, it's a beast." And it's why are we giving people a beast for a job that underpays that we need people to do? Agreed. You know who should be doing edTPA stuff? Doctors, where, where you need, where people need to survive.

I shouldn't be needing to do it to tell you what promotion is. Yeah. And that, that, that just felt, I don't know. It was, like, rubbing me the wrong, the whole time doing it, I'm like- Yeah ... I get the purpose. I don't think this is a waste of time, but I don't get why it's purposeful to me now- 

Andrea: Yeah ... 

Gerry: be- like I haven't been in it, you know?

Andrea: Agreed. 

Gerry: But unless you're grading mine, then I loved every minute of it, but... 

Andrea: A+ passed. Yeah, obviously. No, 100% agree. Um, so most of the teachers who are listening are on summer break now as you listen to this, um, and my hill that I'm gonna die on is related to that. It is that teachers should be allowed to absolutely couch rot as [00:45:00] long as they want when they get onto summer with absolutely zero guilt.

I know there are some people that really enjoy spending their summers brainstorming and prepping for the new year and doing all of that, but if you just finished your school year and you just want to sit and watch TV and chill and do nothing for a week, two weeks, and that's what you need, then I think you should be able to do that, and I don't think you should feel guilty about it in the least, because that is what teachers need after the, the year ends.

Because that's the thing that I keep hearing from all of these career switchers who went from teaching to other jobs, and people in other jobs are like, "Oh, I wish I had summers off." And what I keep hearing from people who switch from teaching to other jobs is they're like, "I didn't need a summer off because I wasn't burned out in the way that I was as a teacher."

Um, which I think is really interesting that, like, the other jobs are just so much less stress than teaching that, like, you don't even need a summer break because It's all good. You're just doing your [00:46:00] job, going home, and all of that. So yeah, there you go. Gerry, do you have any wise words for our people as they rot this summer and anxiously await the start of season three?

Gerry: Gang, gang, baby. 

Andrea: That's right. Hell, yeah. 

Gerry: Hell, yeah. 

Andrea: Hell, 

Gerry: yeah. Hell, yeah. That's it. That's, that's all... That's all- There it is ... that's all we're really trying to do is hell, yeah. You know? 

Andrea: There it is. Um, and guys, you can keep up with us on our social media. You guys know I'm @EducatorAndrea. And Gerry? 

Gerry: I'm @ComedyByGP.

Andrea: Yep. And we both have shows this summer. I'm, um, you know, most of the time they're, like, a few months out, but I, I let everybody know. I actually am doing a show in Chicago that I only scheduled, like, a month out because that's just how the schedule worked out. So, um, yeah, check our websites, educatorandrea.com/shows, and you can see where I'm gonna be.

Got a bunch of big shows in the fall. Um, and if you're in, uh, like, North [00:47:00] Carolina, you're definitely gonna be seeing Gerry with us because he's gonna be on the Church Lunch show there, which is gonna be- For sure, for sure ... so fun. So fun. Um, and if you have thoughts about what we talked about today, I, I do wanna know if there's other things you think people need to be doing before they go for their interviews, any resources you think that teachers, new teachers, um, should have.

You can contact us, andrea@human-content.com. Um, you can contact the whole Human Content Podcast family at humancontentpods. Um, and while we're on our break, if you guys could just do us a real big favor and, um, put a review, a five-star review, that would be amazing. And tell Ger- tell Gerry how proud you are of him, 'cause he did it.

He turned in his edTPA, and then we will find out in a few weeks if he passed it. Um, and you wanna check out the full video episodes, which are up every week on YouTube at Educator Andrea. Thank you so much for listening. I'm your host, Andrea Forkham. 

Gerry: I'm Gerry Patoca. 

Andrea: And our executive producers are Andrea Forkham, [00:48:00] Aron Korney, Rob Goldman, and Shahnti Brooke.

Our editor is Andrew Sims. Our engineer is Jason Portizo. Our music is by Omer Ben-Zvi. To learn more about How to Survive the Classroom's program disclaimer and ethics policy and submission, verification, and licensing terms, you can go to podcasterandrea.com. How to Survive the Classroom is a Human Content production.

Theme: How to Survive the Classroom

Andrea: Thank you so much for watching. Want more of How to Survive the Classroom? You can watch more episodes right now. Just click on that little box over there. You see it? And if you haven't yet, please subscribe. Okay, bye.

​