From Basement Book Shipping to Book Tour Cities with Matt Eicheldinger

Matt: [00:00:00] What I learned about me as a person and a teacher is I didn't have the stimulus that I'd had for 15 years. 'cause when you're teaching, I'm teaching you the lesson, but I'm also thinking about that kid who said that weird thing five minutes ago. What does that actually mean? Is he, is his home life? Okay?

Oh, the phone I know is gonna ring at 10 0 5 because that's when the nurse usually calls for someone else. Also, I should adjust this lesson for the next period. I sense that something wrong is happening behind. You know what I mean? It is, yeah. Thousands of things happening all the time, and so when I finally got a chance just to sit in my own thoughts, I was like.

What is this space?

Andrea: Hey, teacher besties. I am so excited to share with you that my book, they never taught us, that is available for pre-order right now. It. Everything in experience first year teachers need to manage the chaos of the modern classroom, including some anecdotes to make you feel a little bit better because if there is a way [00:01:00] you can screw up, I have probably done it.

It also has advice on how to build trust with families, how to manage grading and lesson plans and IEPs and everything in between that they never went over in your teacher prep program. They never taught us. That is available everywhere right now for pre-order. Hey, teacher besties. Welcome to How to Survive the Classroom.

I am Andrea Fork. I'm 

Gerry: Jerry Patoka. 

Andrea: And today we have someone so exciting to have here. We've got Matt Eichinger. He, this is the second time, one of our very few repeat guests that we've had here. He was on early, early days. Um, Matt, thank you so much for coming and hanging out with us today. 

Matt: Yeah, absolutely.

It's been cool to follow your journey too, so I was happy to come back on and Well, we can talk updates or whatever you wanna do. 

Andrea: Yeah, yeah. So, uh, now for those who maybe, uh, weren't listening back in the day when I had interviewed you the first time, so, um, you are a former middle school teacher and current multiple time [00:02:00] author, and you have a new book coming out, which is what.

Inspired me to bring you back 'cause I'm really excited to talk about the book and we will. Um, but do you wanna give just a little background on yourself and kinda like how you found yourself in the online space and, and writing all these books? 

Matt: Sure. I kind of ask myself the same thing every day. Um, so I was a middle school language arts teacher, sixth grade specifically for 15 years.

Um, I'm currently on leave from the district, so technically I'm still under contract. Um, but I wrote a book when I was 21 years old and I spent 15 years trying to get the darn thing published and then ended up self-publishing it, uh, in the middle of the pandemic and then it did fairly well and got the attention of an agent.

And then that book, uh, quote, instantly became a New York Times bestseller when it re-released. And so then I went on leave to pursue being an author, which was a dream of mine for a while. I've signed, I think, 12 book contracts to date in under two years. By the end of Next Drill, I've written a book for every age range, which is pretty [00:03:00] cool.

Uh, and then the online space, I don't know, I started sharing stories that I'd saved from teaching. Um, I had written something down every day for 15 years and, uh. I think I found a niche online and it's been fun to build a community of teachers just like you have. And it's been cool to navigate everything that comes with it too, because there's a lot that comes with it, as you know.

Andrea: Yeah, yeah. There is. Yeah, man. I'm trying to remember. 'cause the first time you came on it was, it was not. How many booked contracts did you say you've signed now? 13. 

Matt: So like, I think tech, it's less than that, but that's the total amount of books. 

Andrea: Okay. 

Matt: Um, some of them are three book deals. Okay. So one contract, three books.

Um, gotcha. But yeah, I think it'll be 13 books by by 2027. And then I'm, I was supposed to hear back on some today, so maybe I'll get a call in the middle of this. There'll be like a live boxing. 

Andrea: That's, that's so great. Oh my gosh, that's so exciting. So, and I think, I'm trying to remember, I think you were working on maybe your second or.

Third last time we chatted because 

Matt: probably, [00:04:00] 

Andrea: um, you know, I, I have in my home and have read with my son, uh, Matt Sprouts and the Curse of the 10 Broken Toes and Sweet. Which is, it's, it's so, so great. I love it so much. And I was just looking at your website and saw you also have a collection of poetry for Kids that looks like a, basically like a joke book ba right.

Matt: You, you could consider it that it's, uh, it's illustrated poetry. So like, when I started teaching. We had poetry standards, but we had no poetry curriculum. Okay. So it was always easier for me to create stuff. So I started writing poems for my students. They were not good when I started. Like middle schoolers are pretty blunt.

They'll tell you like, that's horrible. Yeah. Um, but I got better over time. And so when I pitched this idea, um, I didn't actually have to work that much 'cause I had hundreds and hundreds of poems properly vetted by middle schoolers just sitting on files on my computer. 

Andrea: Oh, I love it. That's so great. Yeah.

All, all those drafts prejudged by middle schoolers that like, so, so much harder of an audience to win [00:05:00] over than I feel like any other editor's. 

Matt: Oh my gosh, absolutely. So like when I self-published my first book, um, you paid to publish, right? And that mm-hmm. And the way that I did it, and so it's like itemized.

So I paid for like editing services and all sorts of stuff, and then I was like, oh, you guys are gonna design the cover, right? And they're like, well. Maybe, but you, you can give us more money. And I was like, well, I guess I'm drawing it then. And so I did that, but I showed my students the, the covers that I designed and they just tore into 'em so bad.

Um, but they ended up voting on the cover and they chose the one that ended up kind of inspiring the new rerelease too. So that was cool. 

Andrea: Oh, that's so great. So, so now the art that's currently on the cover of the Matt Sprout series, is that your art. 

Matt: It's my art and then they like arrange it. Um, so, and different publishers do things differently, but, um.

Andrews, the publisher that I'm with, they're behind things like Garfield, big Nate, peanuts, [00:06:00] Snoopy, and they're creator first. They really want the creator to be able to have their hands in the process the entire way, which is pretty cool. So I usually pitch them a cover design and then they're like, that's great, but what if we, and then we work together to, to format it so that it's a little bit better than my original.

Andrea: That's awesome. Yeah, I, so I have a lot of people who listen, who are very interested in publishing and getting into. Becoming writers and all of that kind of stuff. And I think it's really interesting that you did it. Just the, I feel like the hardest way in some ways, because everybody, like the story that you just described of I self-published.

Yeah. And everybody loved it. And then a publisher swooped in. I think every single person who publishes self-publishers, they think that's exactly what is going to occur. Do you wanna speak to the reality of that experience and, and how it worked for you and what you would recommend if you were to like start over, how you maybe would, would go about it a little differently?[00:07:00] 

Matt: Yeah. I mean, we could talk about this for hours. Um, I do like talking to people about this because I like shattering. Like pre hopes and conceive? Notions of hopes. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Matt: Not dreams necessarily, but I'm sure when I do meet with people, they're like, oh, and then their dream feels shattered. Um, so there's many different ways to self-publish and I already knew I had a good product 'cause I had 15 years of kids telling me it was good.

So no one could tell me my product wasn't good. I believed that it was, but I needed a way to get noticed and to get noticed. The route that I went was, I want a really good product and to have a really good product, I had to pay. To get like a hardback version of the book. You can self-publish for basically free on Amazon right now, but the quality is, is different.

And so, mm-hmm. You know, when I went through the process, it cost me a lot of money. I ended up doing a Kickstarter campaign. I researched Kickstarter campaigns from months before I dove in. And fun fact, one of the least successful campaigns on Kickstarter are books. So I went in already like, 

Andrea: great, 

Matt: not [00:08:00] uh, yeah.

Right. But I, I really spent my time learning and I created a really compelling video and we were able to raise quite a bit of money to fund that project. Um, once all those books were sold, though I still lost money. Like it's a losing endeavor. You have to print thousands and thousands of copies to get the price per book down low enough to where you can make good revenue.

But the reality was for me, um. I didn't spend a lot of time going to like conferences or you know, book fairs to sell it. I sold 'em primarily online through my website, which meant every time someone clicked buy, I had to go into my basement, grab the book, shove it in an envelope, write the name on it, take it to the post office.

Media mail are, is books and it, and it is cheaper to ship. So then I have to go up to the counter and they go, what's in here? I go a book. And they go a book. I go a book. And then they go, is there a bomb in this bag? And I go, no. And I hit the button. That whole process takes like 10 to 15 minutes. 'cause then they have to type it in.[00:09:00] 

Um, and so if I had an order of 50 to a hundred books, I'd be there for hours. I would go buy McDonald's for all the workers and get there before opening. They allowed me to do that. We would just sit there and I'd go, there's not a bomb in this bag. There's not a bomb in this bag. And it was still fun to know that my books were getting out there, but I was still teaching.

It was absolutely draining. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Matt: And I did that for like a year. Um, I was, I wasn't on social media that much. I kind of dabbled in like teacher humor on TikTok. I think I had a following at the time of like 10,000. 

Andrea: Mm-hmm. 

Matt: But, you know, I had young kids. It was just so much to juggle. Um, and so the reality of being a self-published author is you have to hustle a lot.

You have to hustle a lot. You're going against people who have whole marketing teams. It's really difficult to get your book into a store. I got my book into one store in the state of Minnesota would take it one, and I won like three or four international awards, and still that wasn't enough to get into.

To [00:10:00] bigger box stores, but it's a wild ride. But I, what I tell people is, if you know what your goal is for self-publishing, it's much more manageable. My goal is to get noticed, which required a lot more work. Some people's goal is just to get a book on a shelf for their kids or their family members, and that's a different path.

Andrea: Yeah, man, that is crazy. And well, and what you just described of going to your basement, grabbing the book and then do like, and the I, I think the. Paying for editing is one of those things that I feel like people who maybe are not humble enough to recognize how much they need, it would maybe skip, and that would be the worst possible thing for anyone to do.

Um, I, my book is coming out in May and it has, it's being published through Wiley. And, um, so it, it, it's going through the traditional, um, I, I had one editor that went through and Okay. Came in and, and talked about like, okay, well this is like content wise what I think we're missing here. And then [00:11:00] multiple revisions with copy editors.

I now, I don't know about you, but getting feedback from a copy editor, I think to me is like the most. Painful and annoying because I believe you, like if you tell me, 

Speaker 3: yeah, 

Andrea: you need to put a comma or a period somewhere, you don't have to ask me. Like just, just do it like I, to me, like that is the most, and they're like, check every single page.

And make sure it's, it's exactly what you want. And I'm like, at this point, I don't care what I want, I just want it to, I just want a book and I want it to look good. And if you say it's good, then I believe you more than me at this 

Matt: stage. 

Andrea: Yeah, 

Matt: yeah. Copy editors are like in video game World, they're like a level 99 and I'm like a level five and I was an English teacher, so like I feel like I know this stuff.

Yes. And then copy editors go through and you're like, oh, I don't know anything about our language that I speak. 

Andrea: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. I felt the exact same way. Like [00:12:00] ha having a, a bachelor's degree in English, teaching English, all of that. And then they like, were like, Hey, so you like used the wrong wear on that one?

And I'm like, that's a really embarrassing, uh, mistake. I'm really glad you guys got that. Like 

Matt: yes. Wonder. It's a hu experience. 

Andrea: It truly is. Um, yeah, and Jerry actually has self-published a coloring book, Jerry, is that right? What we have right now on Amazon? 

Gerry: But mine was a cash grab. Brother. I'm not gonna lie to you.

I, I needed comedy merch and I was like, some of these middle-aged teacher women going buy these. 

Andrea: How's 

Gerry: it going? And I did. And I still don't have one. 

Andrea: Did you order one for yourself? 

Gerry: No. 

Andrea: Oh, okay. I thought you were saying like it didn't get fulfill. 

Gerry: I have the ef I'm good. I no, I haven't ordered them. I'm gonna be honest with you.

I kind of forgot I did it and it was just a little side quest I went on. 

Andrea: Um, yeah, I mean, I, I get that. I do think that what you should do [00:13:00] Jerry, though, is like get like a, a calendar type thing, but instead of a cartoons you should do like a photo shoot and do like a, a Jerry calendar. I think that would sell, that would be 

Gerry: my, 

Andrea: yeah, it would be.

Incredible. 

Gerry: Like, and it's just me and drive-throughs 

Matt: different brands. I was gonna, I was gonna wonder, 

Gerry: yeah, 

Matt: I was gonna ask, is this like a steamy calendar? But now it sounds like you're, you're pivoting No, 

Gerry: no school appropriate calendar of just me eating every fast food restaurant's token sandwich.

Andrea: That's actually a genius idea. I am team that and it'd be like, just call it Year of Jerry. 

Matt: I know you said your demographic for the first one, uh, but maybe students would buy that. They might like to hang that up in. 

Gerry: They, they might, 

Andrea: they totally would. It would be, 

I 

Andrea: wish they so fun. 

Gerry: Wish were still using physical calendars.

I could make a phone app. 

Andrea: Yeah. Sell wallpaper. Sell yourself like a little, like photo shoot of, of wallpaper of you like 

Gerry: phone lock screens for like nine, 9 cents on Etsy or something. 

Matt: Well, I'm gonna give you some [00:14:00] hope. So Andrews McNeil Publishing is also the world's number one producer of physical calendars.

They still pump out hundreds of calendars every year, both small and large. So your dream is out there. 

Andrea: That's right. It's 

Gerry: achievable. There we go. 

Andrea: It could happen. 

Gerry: There we go. I'm gonna be sold in dollar trees everywhere. 

Matt: There you go. 

Andrea: I, I love that idea. Oh my gosh. So now, Matt, you had, like, last time we chatted, I think you, you described, uh, Matt Spross and the curse of the 10 broken toes.

How do you, abb, do you say the whole title every time? How do you abbreviate that when you're talking about your book? 

Matt: I mean, I have to say that. And my last name, it's just a whole mouthful. It's, 

Andrea: it really, 

Matt: um, 

Andrea: you just commit to it every time. 

Matt: I Do I just say the whole thing really quick? No, uh, I usually call it 10 broken toes.

Okay. Um, or just the Matt Sprout series. But yeah, I don't know what I was thinking for the first title. Yeah, because everything, everything now, and you know this like in social media and everything's gotta be short, quick, and digestible. Yeah. And here I am, Matt Eichinger, Matt Sprout, and the [00:15:00] curse of the 10 broken.

I don't know. 

Andrea: Yeah. It's a lot. Who knows? It's a lot there. Now that one is, it's considered, is that considered middle grade? 

Matt: It is middle grade, although it's a, it's like a third grade readability. Okay. It was for reluctant readers. So it's got quite the span. I think I've met with classes as young as first grade who do it as a read aloud and then as old as eighth grade.

So that's kind of Okay. 

Andrea: Yeah. It's violent, by the way. Not in a terrible way. It's violent. It, I mean, it's called the, you find out how he breaks his toes and so, 

Matt: yes. Which I think is like, in hindsight, that's definitely the hook that gets kids, like in the opening scene, he breaks his neighbor's collarbone and kids are like, you can write about this stuff.

But you know what's, you know what's funny, not funny is like, you know, my publisher goes to all these international rights conferences where you try and sell your book. With foreign rights to be put in another language. We have learned that in other countries, they don't find breaking toes. Very funny. 

Andrea: Oh no.

Matt: Yeah, so it's, it's most likely not gonna get, I mean, it's a New York Times bestseller. You can't really. Promote it [00:16:00] better than that, but I don't think another country's gonna pick that one up. 

Andrea: Oh, that's so funny. Yeah. 'cause my, my parents came to visit and they just, you know, picked it up to read to one of my kids.

Were like, whoa, whoa, this is, this is, I was like, it's fine. I was like, and I told them that actually. I was like, yeah. So he wrote it for reluctant readers and what, like, what a can it can't imagine a better way to get. Yeah. Reluctant readers to, to buy in than, you know, a broken collarbone. 

Matt: Yeah. Uh, it's a, it's wild.

I don't know if I'll ever write a book as like, I don't wanna use the word graphic, but some are, some scenes for a kid might be graphic, you know? Yeah. Like, 

Andrea: yeah, 

Matt: they're all kind of written funny, but yeah. Broken toes, maybe not laughable. 

Andrea: I mean, to 

Matt: everybody 

Andrea: it's fine, but who amongst us hasn't broken a toe or two?

Um, so you wrote, 

Matt: but do you know that those, do you know that those stories are real? 

Andrea: I did not know that those stories are real. Are those all stories of things that happened to you? 

Matt: Yeah, it's, it's autobiography. 

Andrea: You didn't 

Matt: know that? 

Andrea: I did not know that. And that really I need to [00:17:00] reread now. 

Matt: Okay. With that knowledge.

So lemme give you some high, lemme give you some highlights. So the opening scene where Matt trips his neighbor Jenna in a game of tag and she breaks her collarbone. Yeah, it happened exactly as I wrote it. All those people in the book are, are real. I use their real names. I got permission for everybody.

The scene where Matt throws poop at the llama and it jumps the fence and traps him. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Matt: Happened exactly as I wrote it. 

Andrea: That makes it 

Matt: so 

Andrea: much better. 

Matt: Right. And so what's cool is when you go to places, especially like in cities where like kids aren't. Kids don't hear stories of the country. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Matt: These stories are wild to 'em.

They're like, you actually threw poop at a llama? I'm like, man, there's nothing else to do. Like, like yeah, I was throwing poop at llamas. Like I got the scene where I get, uh, I'm going down a water slide and this kid's climbing up and I gotta jam my feet up to try and stop myself from crunching him. Yeah.

I break a toe that way and I passed out and slid out of there sleeping and went into the water, and they used the big hook to get me out. Oh [00:18:00] yeah. The book's like 99, 90 8% accurate. 

Andrea: That is wild. And now I'm absolutely gonna have to revisit it because Yeah. Oh yeah. It's, it's got, it's no wonder you weren't like, that's not that violent.

This is just an actual story of how I broke someone's collarbone and I'm not a criminal, so it's fine. 

Matt: Right. Well, what's crazy about that llama poop story too is I, this is, this part's not in the book, but when I go talk about it with kids, I, I retell the scene and when the llama trampled me, my dad came outta the house and chased it away.

And then he scooped me up like I was a sack of potatoes. And he brought me and sat me on the toilet, which in the countryside, that's where all medical procedures take place. 

Andrea: Gosh. 

Matt: So he takes, he takes my sock off, he goes, Matt, look at your big toe. It's crooked. I'm gonna put it back into place for you. I was like, you're gonna what?

And he goes here and he took the toilet paper off the roll and he, he put it in my mouth. He goes, that's so I don't have to hear you scream. And he goes on the count of three, are you ready? One, two. And then the door opened and there was like a heavenly glow. And my mom walked in. She's like, we're gonna take you to the hospital.[00:19:00] 

Andrea: Oh my gosh. Is now, what did your dad do for a living? 

Matt: My dad managed a, like mass production or like a mass, uh, production factory. Okay. They made, uh. Of like these, they're called like diamond wheels. They're not actually diamonds. It's made of like this diamond dust and they're grinding wheels to, to grind like helicopter blades and all, all random stuff.

And that environment is in my second book, 'cause I worked there a lot and there was a lot of people there on work release programs from the state prison. 

Andrea: Okay. 

Matt: So I was introduced to a lot of different people in my early childhood. 

Andrea: It sounds like it. Well, and I also feel like folks who have done factory work.

So I, you know, I grew up in, in San Diego and my dad was a physician assistant and my mom was a stay-at-home mom. Okay. And so like I didn't really understand like the culture of like factory work nearly as much as I do now that I live in the Midwest. Yeah. And I have a student in my class right now, he's actually gonna be a [00:20:00] CTE teacher.

And he was explaining to me how he's going to introduce safety protocols in his class when he teaches a shop class. 

Speaker 3: Okay. 

Andrea: Um, by just showing the x-ray of his father's hand because his father works in a factory. 

Speaker 3: Oh geez. 

Andrea: And I don't know, he, I, I'm still trying to understand exactly what happened, but his dad was cleaning out some sort of equipment and there was like kind of a, like some sort of like space behind where he had been reaching and something fell.

No. And fully severed like two of his fingers. And he's, and I was like, well, did they get the fingers back? And he's like, no, because it fell into this radioactive material at the bottom. And I'm like, he was just like reaching his ha just, just like reached it. No. And he's like, yeah. And so he like showed me the x-rays.

And my brother-in-law who works at a power plant, he was there one day when someone's arm, like their forearm got fully like severed and he had to grab it. I, I think that's [00:21:00] part probably why your dad was like, so your dad's like, nah, let's just, we'll duct tape that back way back on. 

Matt: Oh yeah, man. I mean, I, we could tell stories, injuries for days, but I think anyone who works in a mass production factory understands what they're getting into.

Andrea: Yeah, for 

Matt: sure. 

Andrea: And I, I do wonder if the people who make the safety videos for those types of environments are the same as the ones who make the safety videos for teachers, because it feels like. The tone is the same for the two different, 

Matt: the bloodborne, uh, pathogens. 

Andrea: Uhhuh, yeah. The, the most insane videos where people are like, it almost like what I described with like missing limbs and stuff like that.

And I'm like, unless you're getting really intense with, I don't even know what that big paper cutter thing is called. But do you know the, to like cut like, like bun? You know, they do it more in elementary than any of us did it in secondary. Yeah. But 

Matt: yeah, paper color. Sh 

Andrea: Yeah, the gigantic paper. Unless someone's getting really aggressive with that.

I think, or someone's, you know, like Jerry cutting out the pages of his calendar that he is gonna [00:22:00] be doing and injures himself. Something like that. 

Gerry: Yeah. I used to think getting injured by those things was a myth. I thought They told us that just to keep us out of the paper cutting room. 

Andrea: Why would they?

Matt: No, if you. Dude, if you've ever seen like, 'cause you know, schools hold onto anything that works halfway so they don't have to buy a new one. Right? If you go look at some of those that are like from the fifties, there's no safety on those at all. You put that big blade up and then you go to adjust your paper, that thing's coming back down immediately.

Andrea: It's terrific. Yeah. Jerry, what do you, what do you think they're trying to keep us out of the paper room for? 

Gerry: So I, so hold on that, that wasn't an adult. Jerry thought that was a, a third grade Jerry thought, because we used to go through the paper room once, uh, while I was in elementary school. I was in the chorus, more lore for you.

And I would go through the paper room to get to the backstage of the auditorium, and you had to go through a [00:23:00] paper room. We'd go through, they'd be like, don't touch the paper cutter. And I was like, they just don't want us to break it. They, I didn't think we could actually get hurt. 

Andrea: Did you ever touch the paper cutter when you were walking through there?

Gerry: Nah. 'cause I was a rule follower, but I thought, like, I thought like we wouldn't have it if it could hurt people, you know? 

Andrea: Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Gerry: So I didn't think about it. I was like, because 

Andrea: Right, right. That's, that sounds more, you know, that sounds like, yeah. That sounds like the elementary thought process that you would have is like, they're just trying to keep the good stuff from us, honestly.

Um, okay. So now you are publishing when the rain came. Now it is. When does it come out? Has it come out yet? 

Matt: Nope. March 17th. 

Andrea: Okay. I thought I, I was gonna say, I know it's coming up soon because I pre-ordered and I'm like, I haven't gotten yet. Thank you. So it better not, yeah, of course. I'm like, it better not have been out yet.

'cause I'll be real bitter that I didn't get it yet. [00:24:00] Um, so can you tell us about this new book? 

Matt: I can, I have, I have, I got my like. Advanced author copies, which is cool. So there it is, so 

Andrea: exciting. 

Matt: My first ever dust jacket, which is cool. Nice. Yeah. And now I understand like, you know how you get to have your little face in there on the dust jacket?

Andrea: Yeah. 

Matt: And uh, they're like, you need a new headshot. And I was like, that sounds like a lot of work. I'll just use the same one I've been using my entire life. And now I understand why, like, when you meet someone in person and you're like, Hey, where'd all your hair go? You have hair in your book dusted?

That's gonna be me for sure. 

Andrea: Oh no, 

Matt: for sure. This is gonna outlive. My hair. I love that. So I, your 

Gerry: brother? 

Matt: Yeah. Um, yeah, my hair is quickly, rapidly, uh, leaving me. Um, so when the rain came, um, is my first young adult trilogy and it follows a 17-year-old foster child named Aurora. And, uh, you are put right into her situation, which is, she's in this mansion with a new foster family, and it's raining across the whole globe.[00:25:00] 

It's been raining for about a month and she's only been living with them, uh, well about a month since the rain started. And it's about three feet high where she is. But government's been cut off. There's not real any communication. Um, but she learned once it started raining that her really wealthy foster family are actually hardcore preppers, like doomsday preppers.

Andrea: Nice. 

Matt: And they don't necessarily have a lot of skill. They just bought a lot of stuff. And so they kind of try and train her in what they've been trained on. Um, but then she wakes up one day and they are gone. They have disappeared and left her alone in the mansion. And she only has a few clues to where they might have gone and she thinks they've gone to this place called The Hill, which she thinks might be a place of safety in this rising water.

'cause it's already up to the second floor of the house. And so the. The whole book follows her journey of trying to locate this place as well as kind of, uh, redefine herself. [00:26:00] She meets some people along the way. Uh, but it's a dystopian trilogy, so much like the Hunger Games and the Maze Runner, that era of dystopian trilogies.

Um, we're trying to restart. Oh, 

Andrea: I love that premise. That's so, so fun. Thank you. Oh my gosh. Now, how has it felt writing something like this as opposed to writing stuff that leaned more autobiographical? 

Matt: Well, what's cool about my position is like, you know, as a, as a creative, I get to decide what I want to create next.

It's not like a publisher saying, we want a book like this. It's just what do I want to create? And so I try and create things. Only when I'm inspired. And so this book, um, I actually wrote the trilogy in about an hour while we were camping on like my wife's little notepad. It was raining of course, and uh, we couldn't go outside 'cause it was just a little bit flooded.

It was all muddy and stuff. And the idea just came to me and I was like, what if there's a 17-year-old girl trapped with front? And so I just wrote the whole thing. We drove [00:27:00] home that night. I started typing it. I think I pitched it to my agent like maybe a month later I'd written maybe. 75 pages. But, um, I also didn't know if it would, what category it would be.

I was like, can I write outside of middle grade? You know, like, do I have the vocabulary and the sentence complexity? And, and what we decided is that it's okay. It's a really easy read. Like I'm confident a, a sixth grade student can pick this up and read it easily. Um, as well as someone who is maybe in their sixties.

Like it's, it's a, it's a easy, smooth read. But it's very different than other dystopian books. And so, um, I'm proud of what I've, I've made, but I'm also very nervous. 'cause if the first book tanks, there's two more that are coming, you're 

Andrea: like, guess what? 

Matt: Yeah. Guess what guy? You don't like this book? Well, there's two more, uh, that need to be on the shelf, so.

Right. 

Andrea: We'll see. Yeah, we'll 

Matt: see. 

Andrea: So you said it's different from other dystopians. How do you feel it's different? 

Matt: So. [00:28:00] As a language arts teacher, a lot of the books that, that I would have in my shelves, they're pretty graphic for dystopian, right? The whole world is ending people fighting for survival. And I always felt like it was the, the central theme was like, clawing your way to the top.

I must beat somebody to get here. Right? 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Matt: And there is elements of that in this book, but the through line is kind of what I do on social media. It's it's family and it's hope. So my hope is that when people finish reading this book, their shoulders kind of relax, like it is dystopian, but I do think it mirrors what I do.

Um, there are scenes like she, I'm not giving away any spoilers, but these people think they know how to train her. So they make her do things for the months that she's living with them while the whole world is flooding. And so she has to throw a hatchet hours every day. Right. Yeah. So she gets pretty good with this hatchet.

So it comes in handy in her journeys, but it's not the central focus, you know, like in the Hunger Games, Katniss has her bow and arrow. Yeah. And that thing's just [00:29:00] whizzing through all the time. This hatchet is not that, it does play an important role, but, um, it really is about what is family at the end of the day.

Andrea: I love that. That's really cool. Now you said there's, there's two more coming now. How far along in the writing process are you with the, the two other books? 

Matt: Um, so I am, am I done with the second, the second one's pretty much done. It's in the copy editing, uh, stage, which for listeners, that's one, like it's type setting too.

So they're getting it all organized, right? Yeah, so page layout, margins and all that stuff. I'm currently in the middle of writing the third one, and that manuscript is due at the end of May. And I write like. With my middle grade series, I write like a chapter day. This takes me a little bit longer. I write like maybe three quarters of a chapter.

Okay. Um, so I gotta get moving. But the, the second book went really well. I was happy with how it progressed. In the second book, the rain is gone and the sun is out, and it's, everything's just [00:30:00] scorching hot. The, the second book's called, uh, when the Sun Returned. And then in the third book, uh, it's called When the Land Grew.

The sun is back to a normal temperature, but all these, like plants from long ago are starting to sprout and no one knows if they're safe or not or what they contain. Um, but what's cool is you would think that this, that this series with the earth changing would take like years, right? 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Matt: But like between the first book.

The end of the second book, it's only been like two months. So the earth is changing really fast. Okay. Um, and that wasn't intended. It just kind of happened and I like that the pace is really quick. 

Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. 'cause that, I feel like that's also, uh, a big difference with a lot of the other. Um, ya a dystopian type stuff is, it usually is like between the first book and the last book, it, it always feels like years, if not decades.

A lot of times. Yeah. Like, I'm trying to think with, uh, with Hunger Games, I mean, 'cause each time there was a reaping, it at least had been a year so. 

Speaker 3: It 

Andrea: was, you know, a few years [00:31:00] from the first one to, to the last one. So that is really exciting. And it also is just really exciting to think that like, I mean, hopefully the it, it gets received and everybody adores it and then you're gonna be signing like movie deals and stuff soon.

Right. Well 

Matt: here's the crazy, maybe you know what the crazy thing is about movie deals that I didn't know? So I don't think I had mentioned this. I can't remember. I should go back and look when we did our first interview, but when I signed a book deal, that book. Almost immediately gets pitched to places like Nickelodeon, Disney, Sony, paramount, because what they'll do is they will buy the option to hold onto that idea for about 18 months.

I think that's the, the legal amount of time. So they'll, they'll throw me like, and this hasn't, I haven't actually gotten this yet, but does that work? They'll throw you like a couple thousand dollars to keep you happy. Yeah. And then they hold onto the rights. And then if that book does really well, guess who owns the rights and saved a lot of money.

Andrea: Nice. 

Matt: Those. Yeah. So, um, so it's [00:32:00] every book that I put out, it's, it's a possibility. Um, which is wild to think about. 

Andrea: Yeah. And super, super exciting. Wild. Like, because it, the, the way you're describing it, I'm like, I, like I can visualize how like successful that could, could be. Like both on like a visual medium as well.

Like it just, 

Matt: yeah. 

Andrea: So fun. It 

Matt: could be really cool. And it's the first book that I got a, uh, a overwhelmingly positive Kirks review. For those of you who don't know, Kikis does like the majority of book reviews, so if you flip over like a adult book, it's. Almost bound to have a, some sort of Kirks review.

It's, it's the premier reviews of books and for my Matt Sprout series, they always kind of gave me a meh review. I've, I've seen them tear apart authors. 

Speaker 3: Oh, 

Matt: and, and what's weird is it's subjective. So like, there is an, uh, an author that I knew, he wrote a great middle grade novel. Kikis came out and said they're, his characters are socks.

And it said the [00:33:00] author should put a sock in it. That was their main one line, which is like. Oh my God. And then School Library Journal gave it five stars, so, you know what I mean? Yeah. Uh, so I was, I was happy to finally have like a really, like, I think they said, um, it'll have readers clawing to get the second book before it comes out.

And that's about as good as you can do for a review. Yeah. So we'll say 

Andrea: now how much do you read, like Good reads, reviews and stuff like that of your books? 

Matt: Too. Too much. I'll tell you that. Too much. Too much. I'll sit there and hit refresh some days. I had an author telling me, don't do that because like the good reviews will give you a big ego and the horrible reviews will eat at you.

Yeah. I more so do it just to see generally, like I'm still trying to prove to myself that I can do this, right? Yeah. Like did I just get lucky or can I actually write? So to to read comments of. Learning why people liked certain books is great. Yeah. But I gotta tell you for this book, holes in my underwear.

Andrea: Yeah. 

Matt: It's doing really well. It's like getting, uh, [00:34:00] put into curriculums in schools. Like it's doing exactly what I thought it would do, but one of the first reviews I got, I'll, I'll turn to the page on page 27. A poem about a kid watching a plumber fix a sink. So there's a big butt crack, right? 

Speaker 3: Uhhuh, 

Matt: huge butt crack on the book.

And someone wrote on good reads, uh, that this book is an extension of the devil himself. I was like, dang, whoa. Like sometimes comments will make me feel bad, but that one was so outta left field. I was like, I don't even, are you okay? 

Andrea: I right. Did they, did they, did they cite that specifically as like on that, that particular poem was the reason they, 

Matt: so, yeah, so the first line was that this book is from the devil himself, and then they just listed their reasons and the first one was the butt crack.

I'm like, alright, you think a butt cracks from the devil man? Like you need to go read some children's literature. Oh my gosh. I also though have, like, I have, I mean this book is full of humor and [00:35:00] heart, but there is. There's a lot of funny things, like I drew a bunch of toilet paper dancing around a toilet.

Andrea: I love 

Matt: that. There's a, there's a haiku about when you roll a snowball in your backyard, but there's like dog poop sticking out of it. Like it's not for everybody. Um, I love it, but it definitely grabs the attention. 

Andrea: Yeah, it sounds like something my five-year-old son would be all about. So now the, the schools that have it in their curriculum, are they using it to teach poetry to kids in elementary school?

Yeah. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Andrea: So, great. 

Matt: Which is so cool. So I did a, a literacy event the other night, and usually when I do a book event, they'll order books for me to sign, like from local bookstores. And then I, I personalize them for the people who bought them. And there's usually a lot of Matt Sprouts in there. Yeah. And like a couple of these.

But this school, it was mostly. The poetry book, which is cool. 'cause poetry is not a popular genre for children. Yeah. It's like Shell, Silverstein or nothing. So 

Andrea: yeah. It's nice to carve out new I was gonna say like it, the vibe reminds me of Shell Silverstein, like I remember as a kid. Yeah. I like got [00:36:00] where the sidewalk ends from my library and I was just like, 

Matt: yeah, 

Andrea: read it and thought it was the funniest thing in the world.

And I know you're also a huge fan of Calvin and Hobbes and I, I feel like all good memory, both of those influences are like. Very, like, very present in, in, you know, your early books and all of that. So who, who would you say is one of your inspirations for the now Dystopian YA genre that you've stepped into?

Matt: Um, I wish I could remember the creator's name. It's actually, uh, I would say it's from a video game, which got turned into an HBO series called The Last of Us. Are you familiar? 

Andrea: Yes, actually, yeah. I, I've seen that. 

Matt: That's 

Andrea: awesome. 

Matt: So the, the, yeah, the video game, uh, is like one of the only video games where I like teared up at the storyline.

I was like, so, and I'm like, not a huge gamer, but I was shocked. I was like, I'm so invested in this game. Like, he was pathetic. Um, but the, the storyline is so good [00:37:00] and, and it does mirror kind of what I say, like, yes, there's like these like weirdly zombie-like things, but that's not the focus of the video game.

The focus of the video game is family. So I was like, I wonder if I can do kind of the same thing. Um, and I thought about that as I, as I wrote. So 

Andrea: that is so awesome. 

Gerry: When you write, how do you stay invested with what you're writing about? I know some of your stuff's, uh, bial. I didn't say that word. Right.

You know, I meant, I I 

Matt: got you. 

Gerry: Yeah. An English language ain't my strong suit. I know some of your stuff is rooted in your life. Some of it's. Inspired I, before I was doing comedy, when I was teaching, I wanted to get into middle grade writing. I can't stay invested with an idea long enough, so I know I'm not the only one in that position where I lose interest in the thing I'm talking about, or I get distracted and I'm like, oh, I wanna talk about this now.

And nothing ever gets [00:38:00] done. 

Matt: Okay, well I got a solution for you. Um, so there's a couple ways. So like when I write, um, I don't write all day. Writing's actually a pretty small portion of my day. I write for maybe two to three hours. So that'd be the first thing is authors are all different. I've met authors who are like, oh, you gotta write eight hours a day.

I'm like, I would go insane. 

Gerry: Mm-hmm. 

Matt: I would, I could. There's no way. Um. The other thing is too, like when I'm writing, if I have another idea about something else, I stop what I'm doing immediately and go to that, and I put all my energy into that, which means I'm usually writing. Three to four projects at the same time during that two to three hour period.

So like I was writing this dystopian series, but at the same time I have a series for early readers coming out with Simon Schuster. It's about two little monsters that are brothers and they help each other. So I'm flipping back and forth between little kid and dystopian end of the world. Uh, and that's what helps, like me being distracted and I have a theory.

About teachers in general. Um, [00:39:00] when I actually sat down to write the second book, the first day that I was on leave from teaching, I sat down to write and I could not focus for the life of me. I had the hardest time. I was like, I do, I have attention issues. Like I couldn't stay focused for more than five minutes.

And what I learned about me as a person and a teacher is I didn't have the stimulus that I'd had for 15 years. 'cause when you're teaching, I'm teaching you the lesson, but I'm also thinking about that kid who said that weird thing five minutes ago. What does that actually mean? Is he, is his home life?

Okay? Oh, the phone I know is gonna ring at 10 0 5 because that's when the nurse usually calls for someone else. Also, I should adjust this lesson for the next period. I sense that something wrong is happening behind. You know what I mean? It is, yeah. Thousands of things happening all the time and so when I finally got a chance just to sit in my own thoughts, I was like, what is this space?

Andrea: Yeah. 

Matt: Yeah. It's, it's bizarre. But, uh, for those of you who are having trouble focusing, it's okay to not focus. You can skip and go to the next thing. That's what makes you a creative [00:40:00] person. 

Andrea: I think that's really good advice. I, so I, because when I was working on my book, number one, I, I made them give me deadlines.

That was the other thing is, oh, I, I didn't have my book written. I had like. An an outline, and then I, that's, and that's what the publisher had, and then they gave me deadlines. And so that also helped focus me and give me a sense of urgency because that's how, how my brain works is like, same thing where I'm like, I don't, there's like, nothing's on fire.

How am I supposed to create anything? And so I set things on fire, you know, mentally, and that's, 

Matt: there you go. 

Gerry: It's, it's like a sense, like when stuff, whether it's, uh. Comedy or writing a book or even being in the classroom. It's like this thing is your F friend essentially. You're having to spend so much time with it.

Matt: Yep. 

Gerry: You, you want, like, you're not gonna hang out with people who get on your nerves or that you don't like or that bore you. No. You wanna spend your time with something. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. 

Gerry: That stimulates you. [00:41:00] Something you like and 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. 

Andrea: Definitely. 

Gerry: I dunno, I made, I made a coloring book. Of me, 

Andrea: of you. I, and I think it's great.

I think it's, it's high art, Jerry. I love it. I'm looking forward to the, uh, calendar release that I'm sure will happen at some point in 2026. 

Matt: Yeah, put you gotta go all in on that dream. 

Andrea: We are gonna wrap up here. Um, but thank you so much for hanging out with us today. This has been super fun to get an update on all these exciting things.

Yeah. Um, now where can people find you and where should they order your book? 

Matt: Sure. Thanks for asking. Um, well, the great thing is the last name, Eichel Dinger. I am the only thing that pops up online. So you can just Google my name or if you, you can go find me at, uh. Matt eichinger.com or my handle is just at Matt Eichinger.

Andrea: Are you gonna be doing any book releases or signing parties or anything like that in the upcoming months? 

Matt: Yes. Um, I am doing [00:42:00] my second ever book tour. I did a book tour for my book Sticky Notes, which was three days in three cities, and this is five days in five cities, but it goes across the whole United States.

So if there was ever a time for me to get sick, it's definitely gonna be during this book tour. 

Andrea: Right? 

Matt: So I'm, it, uh, I think it's the week of March 17th. I go, I'm in San Diego. Then I'm in Denver, and then I'm in Chicago, and then I'm in New York City for the first time, NYC, and then Boston. Awesome. So all that information's on my website too, but um, yeah, I'm going to be.

It's gonna be a lot. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Matt: I'm excited. 

Andrea: That's, that's so exciting. Well, again, Matt, thank you so much for coming and hanging out with us. Um, and we will be right back.

Have you ever wondered what I would say if my mother and my administrators weren't watching every single thing I do on social media? Well, that's exactly what my standup show is, and I'm gonna be coming to a town near you super soon. You can get [00:43:00] tickets@educatorandrea.com. Slash tickets.

Welcome back, teacher besties. Okay, so I hope you guys enjoyed our chat with Matt. Um, I'm so sorry Jerry, I basically didn't let you speak at all. Do you feel like you have like a lot of words now that you need to get out? 

Gerry: I'll save 'em for later. 

Andrea: Okay, that's great. 'cause it's a podcast, so no need for you to speak.

Um, okay, so I do have a hill I wanna die on, um, because. Someone pissed me off this week. Okay guys, my hill that I wanna die on is, I'm trying to think of the best way of saying it without being so specific that this person knows I'm talking about them. The hill I wanna die on is that it costs $0 to be kind to people.

That's it. It co, it costs $0. I had a situation this week where I went into, um, an office space and somebody was there [00:44:00] who did not like that. I was in that office space and I was just, I was trying to do a really fun activity with my students and we're a teaching college and all that kind of stuff. Um, and the person just reacted like with so much animosity, even though it didn't actually impact her whatsoever.

She just didn't like that she didn't know what was happening. Um. It costs $0 to like, let joy happen sometimes. You know? Like, can't we just let happy people be happy and not reign on the parade of fun, joyous things? Like, it just pisses me off when people see other people being happy and they have to be like, yeah, but maybe you shouldn't be happy.

Like, get over yourself. 

Gerry: Uh, I, I'm just glad you said, uh, you wanted to not make sure the person that you're talking about. I'm like, okay, that wasn't me. 

Andrea: You 

Gerry: thought you pissed me off this 

Andrea: week? 

Gerry: I think I piss everybody off all the time. I'm like, oh, well I do, but no. 

Andrea: Do you 

Gerry: I been getting on people's nerves, Andrea.

Andrea: Really? See, you know what's interesting is I, I was talking, I'm a pissed I [00:45:00] you jerry 

Gerry: today, so I have a light, it's right here. I have a light that I use sometimes when I need lighting for, uh, whether this podcast or for. Videos. Mm-hmm. And it was in my bag and I just walked around the school building during my planning day and I was like, Hey, look where I found my book bag.

I plug in and turn it on real quick and just, and just blind people I walk by and Oh, I just do things like that. Yeah. 

Andrea: Got it. So you're intentionally pissing people off. 

Gerry: Well, when you put it like that. 

Andrea: No, because, so I, I was talking to Steven, our husband about this the other day that like, I don't spend time.

Thinking about whether or not other people like me, like after I have an interaction with someone, I don't really think about it that much afterwards and that like blew his mind because he's like, you don't like, think about like, like go back and forth on whether or not it was the right choice to say the thing you said.

And I'm like, unless I made it so weird [00:46:00] or super uncomfortable, no. Like I pretty much, like I don't, I don't know that my brain works that hard. 

Gerry: I do all the time. 

Andrea: See, and so does Steven and I got, I You must be exhausted. Honestly, I don't worry about that. Pretty much ever. And like the other thing we were talking about is like, like doing, what was it?

It was something about like, uh, making just like basic decisions about like what we're doing or who we're gonna hang out with and stuff. And he like really moles it over a lot. And I make the, I just am like, yeah, let's do it. Nine times outta 10. And he's like, yeah, but, and like goes back and forth on it and I just know I'm like, pretty much, I'm like, yeah, no, we're good.

Like I don't, I don't spend that much time on it. 

Gerry: Yeah, a lot. Some of it's like self-reflective for me 'cause I'll be like, Hmm, did I do anything? 'cause I do things that I don't really think about it. And then I'll think about later I'll be like, yeah, I probably shouldn't have said that or shouldn't have done that.

Oh, [00:47:00] I could see why that would bother somebody. And if that's the case, I have no problem going back and saying, Hey. I could have done this better. I did this, I'm sorry if you interpreted this. 'cause I think people's feelings, regardless of what your intent was, that person, wherever they felt received mm-hmm.

That's what's objective. And it's like, hey, I, if I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Not hurt your feelings, my bad. Yeah. Um, I, I'll keep that in mind. What it's onward from here. But, um, then there's sometimes I'll do something. I'm like, man, I stand on that. Like, 

Speaker 3: yeah, 

Gerry: I'm good. Like, like that's, that's a you problem.

I'm not worried about, but I am like, I try and be. Fair to it. 'cause I know I'd be making mistakes. Like the light thing that probably could have made somebody mad. I thought it was funny. Yeah. I would be a little, little goofy, little jokester boy. And doing, doing my little things like, I like to yell in the hallway sometimes.

Like I'll, I'll come behind somebody, be like, oh. Or make a sound and make them jump, man. I'm like, yeah. It's funny for me. Like, I'm glad that's this camera right there. Like, I [00:48:00] got you. 

Andrea: Mm-hmm. 

Gerry: And it's hilarious to me. But then some people like, that makes you mad. I'm like, eh, my bad. Tried something didn't work.

Oops. 

Andrea: Interesting. 

Gerry: If it does feel like, like, uh, I know like people, you talking about people being nice on social media, I, you've been pretty trans open with stuff people have been saying to you online. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Gerry: Some of our friends have been pretty transparent with. Stuff people are saying to them online people are, I don't even have followers and people are ticking up, making fun of me online.

I'm like, what I do? 

Andrea: Yeah. Does it bother you? 

Gerry: Oh yeah, sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't. 

Andrea: I have a lot of older videos getting reposted, which are usually the ones that people make rude comments about. 'cause I was trying some things out with makeup. It wasn't always the best look. And somebody posted, um, what corner are you gonna be standing on?

Um, like basically calling me a prostitute. And so I immediately responded with the same corner that your mom used to meet your dad on. Before she got too old for [00:49:00] him. And here's the thing, like I wasn't upset. I just thought that's a really funny comeback for that person being a jerk. It doesn't bo, I don't know why it doesn't bother me.

And Steven thinks that I have a sociopathic level of confidence sometimes where like, it, maybe it should bother me sometimes. And I'm like, I just, I, I imagine the worst person I know is that person behind the keyboard. Who cares what they think. 

Gerry: I try and be so safe with the things that I reply with, that it's like, I don't mind responding.

Andrea: Yeah. 

Gerry: But I'm not gonna stoop to, and I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with doing it. I get why people do what My first reactions, Matt really want say this, but I'm not going to. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Gerry: Because I, I have a job and I don't wanna say the wrong thing. Right, right, right. And then I end up the thing I end up saying.

I'm like, yeah, it felt Korney. They, that's what they want me to do. And that's what they want us to do is respond to it and give it some attention. And it's hard for me not to do that, but I don't wanna let them win. But I'm [00:50:00] also like, don't, don't step in the ring with me. 'cause if you really wanna do this joking thing, I'm on that.

Andrea: Right. 

Gerry: Like, I got you. 

Andrea: Right. Exactly. 

Gerry: And, uh, it does bother me 'cause it's all, it's usually stuff about weight and that annoys me. I'm like, you don't even know me. And you aren't even, you don't have pictures of yourself up to them. They're just, they can hide behind. Of course, the social media stuff bothers me more.

Like, if you're gonna be mean to me, stand on it, like mm-hmm. 

Andrea: It 

Gerry: least when, uh, they have pictures of themselves on there. Like, at least, least, at least you honest, like at least you was, you really meant that. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Gerry: Um, but yeah. 

Andrea: Agreed. Well, 

Gerry: yeah, it'd be where 

Andrea: I be. I, I agree. And you know, it's, it, it does, it does get annoying, but I think that, uh, your followers are just gonna grow and eventually you'll hit a spot where people will defend you out.

Like you won't even have to say anything. 'cause people will get on 'em about it. And that's what was happening with some of the comments in mind too, is I had like former students or my mom will be in the comments like, you don't [00:51:00] know. You have no idea. But 

Gerry: yeah, I've had that a little bit and 

Andrea: yeah. 

Gerry: Yeah, and, and the good stuff in, in my brain, the bad outweighs the good, but I know overall the good outweighs the bad.

Like, 

Andrea: that's right. 

Gerry: I like, people aren't following me because they wanna trash everything I say. 

Andrea: Exactly. 

Gerry: Um, people just aren't following me at all. 

Andrea: Speaking of if people do wanna follow you, where they, where can they find you? 

Gerry: I'm on Instagram and TikTok at Comedy by gp. 

Andrea: Perfect. And as you guys know, I am on all the platforms at Educator Andrea, and you can email me.

andrea@humancontent.com. Um, or you can contact the whole Human Content Podcast family at Human Content Pods. Um, and if you have not yet, please do leave us a five star review on whatever listening app you listen to us on. I would greatly appreciate it, and you can catch the full video episodes up every week on YouTube at Educator.

Andrea, thank you so much for listening. I am your host, Andrew Forche. 

Gerry: [00:52:00] I'm Jerry Patoka, 

Andrea: and our executive producers are Andrew Forche, Aron Korney, Rob Goldman, and Shahnti Brook. Our editor is Andrew Sims. Our engineer is Jason Portizo. Our music is by Omer Ben-Zvi. To learn more about how to survive the classrooms program, disclaimer and ethics policy and submission verification and licensing terms, you can go to podcast or andrea.com.

How to Survive the Classroom is a human content production

Speaker 3: classroom.

Andrea: Thank you. Much for watching. Want more of how to survive the classroom? You can watch more episodes right now. Just click on that little box over there, you see it, and if you haven't yet, please subscribe. Okay, bye.

Speaker 3: Confident.